New MRA Bog Pit Rules

[Demented]

Class 5 Extreme stock


CHASSIS
2) 4 point roll cage required.
11) Maximum 44” unaltered DOT tires (Variance will be allowed for locality)

ENGINE
1) Any automotive type engine acceptable
5) Any type of cylinder head allowed, Cast aluminum intake manifold only

Am I out of line to be concerned with a 4-point cage in a truck with pro heads & 44" tires? That to me would be kind of minimal on the cage requirements.

Good Point. That is one thing that may need to be revised.

As far as the Diesel issue, we will have to write it in and clarify this. Obviously Diesels will be allowed and we just have to allow the appropriate fuel for those motors.

[Scott Graham]

The Outlaw Super Stock class discussion going on right now has me thinking of this one again. In particular, the move to allow 40" tires in Super Street when Super Stock already allows 40's. I believe in an effort to bring more guys into the class, you'll ruin it for the guys who are already IN the class. What's more, with the "local variance" I've lost all justification for maintaining a "standard" size in this class. Once that door was opened, the guys in TX & AR decided they are going with 35" in this class while the guys in MO, OK, & KS are going with 38.5". And we were going to try to tie our series together. But, that's no longer possible. Had we stuck to 37" with no variance allowed (or a single MUCH larger variant spelled out in print - say 46.5"), there'd have been some grumbling on all sides, but I believe we'd have all adopted the SAME rule

So again, it's the catch-22. You want to let more guys in, but the guys already in can no longer compete with the new guys. You want to allow some local "control" over the rules, so what results is localized rules that are just that - local. And any attempt to expand beyond our borders is now much more difficult.

[Demented]

So again, it's the catch-22. You want to let more guys in, but the guys already in can no longer compete with the new guys. You want to allow some local "control" over the rules, so what results is localized rules that are just that - local. And any attempt to expand beyond our borders is now much more difficult.

A couple things you need to keep in mind is that first you don't want to make it difficult for guys that are already established to follow the MRA and this means that you have to allow certain things some flexability. WIth the 40 inch tire rule it is not killing the class, you opening the door for more competitors to enter into the MRA. MAybe in the midwest 37 inch tires are what guys are running but in the northeast and other places the next class over stock is allowed to run 40 inch tires. 44's are allowed in the next few class up. Secondly, when we said "local variance allowed" this is still subject to approval by the MRA board. All the variations will have to be submitted to the MRA so that we can see how it is being used throughout that region. Then we can make a determination if it will be an acceptable variance. Rules are there to make sure things are kept fair, but remember that we are the new kids on the block and in order for racers to take us seriously we have to bend as well to conform to what is out there and not just in one area. Only with compromise will this work. I understand that many of you in the midwest are advocates of the 37" tire class, and that is OK, but is it fair to the rest of the country to have to buy new tires just because of one area? No so that is why we are allowing some breathing room.

[Scott Graham]

A couple things you need to keep in mind is that first you don't want to make it difficult for guys that are already established to follow the MRA and this means that you have to allow certain things some flexability. WIth the 40 inch tire rule it is not killing the class, you opening the door for more competitors to enter into the MRA.

40" tires do in fact kill a class that is full of 35" tires. Period. The 2 are not comparable. Period.

MAybe in the midwest 37 inch tires are what guys are running but in the northeast and other places the next class over stock is allowed to run 40 inch tires.

I've asked you many times to explain WHY 40" and this is actually the first time you've actually answered. So, for actually giving a reason FINALLY, I thank you That said, when we drew up these plans, we sat down with every available set of rules we could find - North, South, East, West. And by far, the most prevalent size for this class or anything comparable was 36.5". More than half the places out of dozens of sets of rules we found were 36" or 36.5". Among the rest, probably half of those were either 35", 37", or 38.5". So, you have a minimum of 75% of the local rules settling on a # between 35" & 38.5". We settled on 37" because we felt it was as large as we could go and still allow the guys who had 35" tires to be competitive. 38.5's really change the dynamic of the class. Honestly, we didn't really find many places with a 40" version of this class at all, although we did find several that were 44", and several that had 2 versions of this class - a 44" version and a version that was 35-38.5".

44's are allowed in the next few class up.

And again, MRA already has 40" and 46.5" classes. If the guys in your area on 40's are built to Super Street specs, and the guys in your area on 44's are built to Super Stock specs, making those guys bump up a class will still have them running against all the same guys. As for the guys on 44's wanting a Super Stock type class, you took care of that with the new Extreme Stock class. When you took the 37" class away from the Super Street guys, what did you give them in return? Not a thing. You do realize that there are probably more 35-38.5" tires sold than all the other sizes combined, right? And yet we aren't going to have a single class that's standardized to anything in this size range, but instead will have THREE 40" classes?????? Tell me how that makes sense?

Secondly, when we said "local variance allowed" this is still subject to approval by the MRA board. All the variations will have to be submitted to the MRA so that we can see how it is being used throughout that region. Then we can make a determination if it will be an acceptable variance.

This is a terrible plan. Pick the sizes now & publish them. I made a request to run a 37" version of Super Street weeks & weeks ago and I haven't even gotten a response. Not a yes, a no, or even a maybe. I can't imagine things will get any better once you have dozens of similar requests from all over the country, many of which will come from guys who don't have the advantage I do of having direct access to you guys.

Rules are there to make sure things are kept fair, but remember that we are the new kids on the block and in order for racers to take us seriously we have to bend as well to conform to what is out there and not just in one area.

We have ONE set of rules for the Fast Track. I understand the Pit rules are more difficult because of the lack of standardization. The original set was drawn up to run as few classes as possible while covering as many trucks & as many areas as possible. In no way, shape, or form did one part of the country get a better deal than everyone else.

Only with compromise will this work. I understand that many of you in the midwest are advocates of the 37" tire class, and that is OK, but is it fair to the rest of the country to have to buy new tires just because of one area?

Again, I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that 37" is good for "one" part of the country. It appears to me that you're allowing ONE part of the country to set the 40" standard since we found that to be the oddball size for this class (even 44" was more popular than 40"). We found 35-37" classes similar to Super Street from NC, GA, MS, MO, KS, TX, AR, OK, SD, IA, IL, IN, and these are just the ones I can remember off the top of my head and I'm quite certain there were tons more as well as most of the above states having multiple sets of rules that have a class in this size. Hell, Randy Roberts is running 2 37" classes at his events in Mississippi this year. That's not exactly the "Midwest" . Not to mention the dozens of other 35-38.5" classes that do NOT mirror Super Street that we also found. I just can't imagine a legitimate mud racing organization with NO classes in between 33" & 40" ESPECIALLY when you're planning to have THREE 40" classes.

No so that is why we are allowing some breathing room.

Wouldn't it make more sense to pick 2-3 sizes per class and call it good? You wanna run a "big tire" version in the Northeast, fine. Pick a big size and call that SPECIFIC size "also acceptable". There has to be a resolution here, you can't just leave it up in the air "for now". If you think sticking to ONE size is too strict, I can go along with that. Allowing every conceivable size to be a possibility (even if further review is to be implemented at some point) is too loose.

35, 38.5, and 44" are the acceptable sizes recognized by MRA
37 & 46.5" are the acceptable sizes recognized by MRA
35, 40, and 46.5" are the acceptable sizes recognized by MRA

Doesn't that sound a lot better than, "tell us what you want to run and someday we may get back to you to let you know if it's okay"?

[KBL-JASON]

Tex,
you have some very good points - but i think the thought process is that there will never be a national bog championship race or series so that the best that you can ever be is the mra champion in your region or state -

so the rules don't have to be 100% standardized, but in my opinion they need to be as close as possible because i do see a national bog pit race occurring - i had some input on the bog classes (not all of them) here is what makes sense to me for the bog pit given all of the classes that the mra has on its platter

remember this is for national chamionship implications (if there aren't enough trucks, combine renegade and outlaw pro stock into one class)

1. open paddles
2. outlaw pro stock (44" cuts)
3. pro-stock or renegade (44" dot's)
4. outlaw superstock (if they take out the 3&4 links) (40" dots or cuts)
5. super stock 38.5" or 40" dot tires (no pro heads)
6. superstreet (37" tires - no aftermarket heads)

classes that could be added if there is enough interest (no need for a street class at a national race)
tractor tire
4/6 cylinder

[redeyedad]

Tex, Using your own words "50% use 36.5 tires" , why would you change the size? One thing not discussed is the reasoning for going to 38.5 size or even 40". That would be to keep from pulling trucks out. You can make a shallow pit that 33" tires go thru and the crowd doesn't get much of a show, or make it deeper and then its clear why bigger tires are used as well as tire speed. Dad

[Scott Graham]

Tex, Using your own words "50% use 36.5 tires" , why would you change the size?

We did that to try to accomodate those areas that were on 37" tires. As redeyedad mentions, 37" is NOT the size that's common to our area. 35's are the norm here with 36 or 36.5" the "typical" class limit. But, we felt that 35" Boggers were actually better performing tires than 37's, so we didn't feel 37" would put anyone on 35's at a disadvantage. And then that way the groups who were utilizing 37" already would be able to be included in this class, but not at the expense (in our opinion) of the guys on 35's.

One thing not discussed is the reasoning for going to 38.5 size or even 40". That would be to keep from pulling trucks out. You can make a shallow pit that 33" tires go thru and the crowd doesn't get much of a show, or make it deeper and then its clear why bigger tires are used as well as tire speed. Dad

I don't know that encouraging full passes is really enough reason to justify larger tires in this class. I suppose it could be, although I don't believe that's the logic used in choosing a larger tire for the class. I'd venture to say the idea behind a larger size is to encourage more participation, although that can obviously backfire if the guys on smaller tires don't show up. That said, I do think we're on the same page regarding the performance of 38.5-40" tires in deep mud compared to 37" or smaller tires. The 38.5-40's will be at a CLEAR advantage.

[Scott Graham]

Tex,
you have some very good points - but i think the thought process is that there will never be a national bog championship race or series so that the best that you can ever be is the mra champion in your region or state -

And that logic may be dead on. Having a "national" standard though does permit neighboring regions to work together, which is very feasible IMO. Guys from MO don't typically race in Texas, nor do guys from Texas typically race in Missouri. But, both groups race in OK, AR, and even KS.

so the rules don't have to be 100% standardized, but in my opinion they need to be as close as possible because i do see a national bog pit race occurring

I think there needs to be 1, 2, or 3 very specific versions of every class that's recognized nationally in order for it to work. We need to pick one size tire that's the "national standard" for each class. That size also absolutely needs to make sense not only in terms of how trucks built that way perform, but also in terms of the classes immediately above & below that class (in other words, I don't believe it makes sense to have the same size tires, or close to it in "adjacent" classes). Additional SPECIFIC sizes can be chosen and utilized as alternate versions of the class, but again I think those sizes need to be chosen NOW rather than looking at individual cases as they come up.

[Demented]

I 'm going to say two things here:
1)There are trucks that are out there that come from the factory with 37" tires. The way the rules were written these trucks were out classed before they even get into the put.
2) The way the rules were did not work, we had no big following of mud boggers before. Since we introduced the new proposed rules ( which I may add are not finalized and will not be for a while)there is much more interest in the MRA pit classes then there was before. That speaks for itself.

[mudboy]

biggest thing that kills me is every class with 40s or 44s (as written now) involves a cage. All of my 40 and 44" tire guys except for maybe 3-4 trucks would match up to street stock or super street. It's hard enough to get my guys to put in driveshaft loops yet a cage I simply worded in my rules that gutting cannot interfere with the structural support of the truck. Then in my second 44" tire class and higher I'm requiring a cage for anyone who does gut the the truck to the point of structibility interuption. Second all of my 44" tire guys would be stock running against people with engines that sit in there cabs. Once again I got the obstacle of having mostly "woods trucks" and not "race trucks". For instance no trans brakes until class 4 for NJ